Summary
Trump just presided over one of the greatest diplomatic disasters in modern history, with flared tempers, raised voices, and shredded protocol.
Never before has a U.S. president bullied and berated an adversary, never mind an ally, in such a public way.
During a tense Oval Office meeting, Trump and JD Vance attacked Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, demanding he accept a peace deal with Russia or lose U.S. support.
The conversation devolved into shouting, with Trump accusing Zelenskyy of being ungrateful and “gambling with World War III.”
The meeting ended in chaos, with no agreement reached.
Zelenskyy is a goddamn hero
fuck trump fuck vance fuck musk fuck putin
And his most heroic act was not punching the old fart in the teeth
Zelenskyy is a goddamn hero
He’s far from being a hero. Zelenskyy just happens to be the president of a country being invaded, if trump was in his place you would be here calling him a hero. Zelenskyy is the president of an authoritarian government who turned to martial law and is drafting people by force while not allowing any male between 18-60 to leave the country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobilization_in_Ukraine#2024
“In 2023, harsher methods of mobilization began to be used, such as road blocks, business raids, and pulling people from the streets. In the latter half of 2023, videos surfaced online showing Ukrainian men violently dragged into vans and driven to the military recruiting centers”
Zelenskyy is the president of an authoritarian government who turned to martial law
Active invasion of their country from Belarus and Russia. What a brain dead take.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobilization_in_Russia
Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics
The mobilization was accompanied by mass raids on men of military age. In the enterprises of the region, up to 80% of employees were called up, which led to shutdown of mines and public transport, as well as the paralysis of cities and public services. To avoid mobilization, residents hid or tried to illegally leave the republics.[21]
Recruitment of prisoners
Implementation
It was reported that Russian authorities were targeting poor, homeless and people from poorer regions of Russia for conscription.[79][80] Russian authorities drafted detained protestors with no previous military experience, including a 17-year-old boy who was arrested at an anti-war demonstration in Moscow.[81]
On 14 April 2023, Putin signed into law a bill that would allow authorities to issue electronic summons to draftees.[92][93] The law blocks anyone eligible for military service who has received a digital summons from leaving the country.[94] Russian lawyer Valeria Vetoshkina called it a “hidden mobilization.” According to Russian economist Konstantin Sonin, “Now, any person, regardless of whether he took a summons or not, [or] has an account with Gosuslugi or not, can be arrested and convicted for not going to war.”[95] Russian lawyer and human rights activist Ivan Pavlov said that the “only option is to leave the country as soon as possible, but there is very little time for that.”[96]
Thanks for reporting on the draft in russia too. Forced conscription is form of slavery and a violation of human rights, it should be abolished and every person should fight against it and against the governments forcing it on people.
When two countries drafting people by force and not allowing them to leave the country get into a war you get a total disaster where poor people are forced to murder each others. The rulers and government behind these authoritarian polices are criminal and enemies of humanity.
When two countries drafting people by force and not allowing them to leave the country get into a war you get a total disaster where poor people are forced to murder each others
In this situation, one country got into a war. The other is defending its sovereign territory.
So if russia were to be attacked by china would it be ok for them to draft people by force to defend their sovereign territory? If you were someone living in russia would you be ok with putin goons arresting you if you try to leave the country?
Didn’t like, every country do the draft in WW2 and it was barely enough to defeat the Nazis?
He’s not a hero lol
Wait, are you upset your favourite orange sack of shit is the laughing stock of the world, while Zelenskyy is unanimously praised?
Aw.
lol then go move to Ukraine if you wanna suck him so badly dawg
Most people would have taken the ride offer out of Kiev in 2022. That alone made him a hero. This new incident just adds even more to his hero status
Edit: Not you specifically, just in general.
Yeah, because we learned that if you don’t counter trolls some people will believe every goddamn word they say and then vote the trolls into office.
He’s not a hero lol
He is a hero lol
lol if you honestly believe that, that’s ur issue
lol if you honestly don’t believe that, that’s ur issue
Yeah I’ll believe that sitting in the house I own. Go pay rent
Finally a fucking accurate headline. All of this “argument between zelensky and trump” horseshit was so immediate and widespread. Trump couldn’t even handle his own unjustified attack. They needed vance to to start with verbal diarrhea and buzz words so dementia donny dipshit had things to free associate with. They ganged up and bullied to try to force him to break, and he held.
Trump’s unreasonable nature is so obvious in the full video that I don’t see how anyone with two braincells can be on his side. Some highlights I want to share:
Reporter asks at 37:39 “… and who would protect those minerals … ?” Trump: “They’ll be protected. The agreement will protect them. The agreement, yeah we’re signing an agreement.” Reporter: “Right but what if Russia tries to invade or there’s russian agression in those spots.” Trump: “I just don’t think that’s going to happen.” He then deflects by trying to discredit the reporter since he couldn’t answer the question. So instead of giving Ukraine any guarantees or acknowledging Russia’s previous deceit, he hand waves it away.
At 33:45 “… what did [Putin] tell you that he wanted peace?”. Trump: “My whole life is deals … I’ve known him for a long time, he had to suffer through the Russia hoax, you know Russia Russia Russia it was a hoax. It was all Biden it was nothing to do with him … I think that he wants to make a deal and he would like to see it end.” What an absolute nothing answer. He’s asked why he believes this is viable and after a short attempt at making Russia the victim he just says, rephrased, “because, lol”.
At 39:50 Vance goes on a truly incoherent ramble about how Biden tried “thumping [his] chest and pretending that the president of the United States words mattered more than the President of the United States’s actions” and thus “the path to peace and the path to prosperity is maybe in engaging in diplomacy”. Ah, diplomacy, the path that is famously known for it’s lack of words… sending money to Ukraine or providing military aid? Those aren’t actions, they’re just words. Zelensky goes on to ELI5 to Vance how Putin broke diplomacy before the clips everyone is posting begins.
And just for fun, at 30:15 Trump delivers a line so stupid it almost breaks Zelensky’s poker face: “I’ve stopped wars, I’ve stopped many wars. My people will tell you, I’ve stopped wars that nobody ever heard about. I stopped wars before they ever started. … I could give you a lot of nations that would tell you right now they were probably going to war — I could tell you right now there is a nation thinking about going to war on something that nobody in this room has ever even heard about.”
This is ignoring all the times they try and blame Biden for Russia invading Ukraine which just ???
You seem to be one of the few people I’ve seen online that seems to have watched the whole video and came away with this take, so I would love a civil response.
I’m certainly not on Trump/Vance’s side, but when watching the whole video I can’t help but think that Zelenskyy truly failed at understanding the purpose of the meeting and has condemned many more of his countrymen to death. It seemed obvious from the get go that Trump wanted this to be a public deceleration of economic entanglements and that the security discussions would come later. I get Zelenskyy’s point that Russia has been impossible to deal with from a diplomatic standpoint and that he didn’t want to leave Washington without a security gaurentee, but by publicly shaming Russia from the ovel office he is making diplomacy impossible. My impression is that Zelenskyy wants the war to keep going, but I truly don’t understand why. His citizens are dying and they are losing territory. Russia has 10x the population and, historically, has had little reservations about sending their soldiers into the meat grinder. And let’s not forget that if Russia gets backed into a corner, they still have nukes that could escalate the situation to unfathomable destruction.
From my nonexpert opinion, if I was the leader of Ukrainian I would be trying to make as many economic deals as possible with foreign nations and look to stop the war asap. I truly can’t think of a better alternative than that given the current situation. So my question is, what should the US, EU, and Ukrainians be doing to stop the killing? What is the most realistic path to peace?
And just reiterate, I don’t agree with the wording and attitude of Trump/Vance during that meeting, but the general sentiment of economic entanglements seems like the best option at this point. No?
The idea that any deal with Russia that wouldn’t include rock solid security guarantees would lead to stopping the killing, much less any sort of peace, is extremely naive. This issue is ongoing ever since Russia annexed Crimea, there have been many deals and all of them failed to stop Putin from breaking them. The issue is very simple - Trump can not (and absolutely doesn’t want to, from the looks of things) convince Putin to stop the war, because Putin doesn’t want the war to stop. It was shown time and time again that they aren’t willing to stop their invasion, and only thing that ever thwarted their progress was military opposition. There is no reason to believe that Russia wouldn’t just continue the invasion after the deal with USA is made. And Ukraine wouldn’t have any benefit from this kind of deal, so why would they go through with it?
Since you watched all of it, as unbearable to watch it was, you probably also heard the comments of Trump in the interview afterwards - that he organized and prolonged this discussion to show the world that Zelensky can not be negotiated with. Whatever you might believe in, it’s hard to imagine that as anything else other than admission that Trump never expected his “deal” to go through. They jumped and insulted the president of soverign country and blamed him for the war their close friend started. If your reaction to that is “he shouldn’t have reacted to the provocation”, then you’re missing the point of why they provoked him in the first place. This way, at the very least, he made sure the world despised Trump and that all other allies of Ukraine were sympathetic. His only choice is to weather this storm until the fascist bubble in USA bursts and there is some chance for diplomacy in the future.
As for the economic entanglements, they mean nothing in times when USA is incapable of diplomacy and Russia is unwilling of adhering to any deals. Speaking of any trades where Ukraine is giving up their minerals before USA promises to push Russia outside of Ukraine borders is meaningless, and Ukraine wouldn’t get anything out of that.
Zelenskyy was only interested in allowing the US to take their ‘rare earth’ if the US was also going to guarantee that it would help their defense against Russia’s advancements.
Trump claimed the deal had already been made, and tried to make the conference about how great he is and how bad the previous presidents were.
He praised questions that verbally sucked him off, and belittled those who asked genuine questions about the deal.
Then the two Americans bombarded Zelenskyy with questions and refused to allow him to answer.
They talked over him and got upset at him for not sucking their cocks the whole conference.Zelenskyy was sent out because the babies in the Whitehouse couldn’t handle somebody who didn’t kiss their feet. He didn’t disagree with the deal, he just wanted more clarification and this was taken as a personal attack.
The world does not respect Trump or the US. We laugh at their incompetence and look forward to their ego getting checked.
This whole press conference made the US look like half-assed war profiteers, rather than the ‘freedom fighters’ they like to roleplay as.
I don’t know what it can be, but every ounce of me hates both of these men. I don’t even want to call them men. I can’t think of a possible way that they could suffer and feel the emotion of helplessness and sorrow. Whatever would happen, I don’t think they’d care. They literally wouldn’t care - because they have the mindset that they are invincible and can have whatever they want.
I think Tolkien has words for the corrupted, the lesser beings that are greedy agressive morons, “orcs”
This really is the end of the US era. Nobody will count on them for things like this from now on. War was the one thing the US was good at, now they have nothing of value left for the rest of the world.
War was the one thing the US was good at, now they have nothing of value left for the rest of the world.
Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan.
US is good at pumping infinite money into the military. But they definitely aren’t “good” at war.
Most pathetic behavior from nation leaders i have ever seen, how Trump and Vance even talk is unbearable, its like watching the Boys in actual real life unbelievable. It would be funny if the world wasnt at stake
They are more like the monkeys at the beginning of 2001 banging on the monolith.
I was thinking the monkeys at the beginning of History Of the World Part 1 just banging…themselves silly.
As much as this makes me hate Donald Trump more than I already did, which was already more than I hate almost anyone, the really horrific thing is that a decent fraction of Americans will look at this and think Trump made the right decision, or at least a brave, or reasonable, decision.
True, but I don’t think it matters any more what they think. They are a cult, and we cannot salvage this situation by swaying them. We have to act accordingly. They just need to be mowed down if they get in the way.
I‘m trying to think of ways other than a civil war to salvage this situation but I’m coming up blank. Maybe someone more optimistic than me can chime in.
Well, don’t be a removed about it, pull a Fort Sumter or shut it lmfao
I’m European. We have other wars to deal with right now, but I suggest you sort your shit out rather sooner than later.
european
I see, opinion discarded!
Insta edit: only cowards need a /s
Perfect response, enjoy your fall of Rome era.
Perfect yourself, enjoy your “Satellite State of Rome during the Fall of Rome Era” era DX
I know my meme game has died and ascended into Boomerdoom, for I’ve seen this about 12 times and IDK what’s up
Real Art of The Deal shit.
Absolute fucking masterclass in statesman-like diplomacy.
Genuinely a moment for all Americans to be proud of. Truly, exceptional.
Coming from YouTube, all the comments were saying Trump put Zelenksy in his place… are people actually that stupid, or is the whole internet edgy rightwing bots?
The comment section of the video I watched said otherwise. Was the one you watched on the Fox channel by any chance? They be like that.
It was a left leaning UK channel, weirdly enough
What channel?
Congrats Never Genocide people posing as Progressives. We fucking warned you that exactly this was going to happen. Trump and his cult would side with Russia and throw Ukraine under the bus.
Great fucking job.
And great fucking job, Mods, for protecting those fucks in the name of civility.
We are the baddies now. And we got here because you’d rather protect Nazis from being punched in the mouth for their words and actions in the name of civility.
Thank fucking God we didn’t vote for Harris because she wouldn’t outright condemn Israel. Totally worth everything happening now (that any remotely educated and reasonable person warned about).
Gaslighting people into believing that Harris did not promise unconditional support for Israel’s genocide I see.
You’re in a lemmy.world instance, brown lives are acceptable sacrifices to them.
I know the main thing here is Vance and Trump backstabbing and bullying Zelenskyy, but I just want to point out that Trump repeatedly talked about “raw earth” instead of “rare earths”. We’re truly fucked.
Trump is America’s Boris Johnson turned up 100. The act of stupidity is intentionally, to provide a thin veneer of plausible deniability in case the rule of law comes back swinging it’s prejudice cock to only smack either Vance in the face as he Pardons Trump and Musk.
If Trump’s stupidity is an act then boy is he committed to the bit - because he’s been dumb as a bag of rocks since grade school, through high school, college, and in every encounter with people close to him. Doesn’t even turn it off for the wives or friends behind closed doors. Truly the greatest method actor of our times.
Lol imagine being a Russian and seeing the “Evil West” siding with your leader. Must be a confusing time… 🤣
They love Trump, because their oligarchs and their puppets have regularly praised him on Russian state TV since 2016. So no, no confusion. They know Trump works for them.
https://www.newsweek.com/russian-tv-praises-trump-putin-1740156
https://www.newsweek.com/russian-state-tv-trump-putin-hegseth-2030562
https://www.npr.org/2016/09/09/493289326/donald-trumps-long-embrace-of-vladimir-putin
I understand now why tankies were so obsessed with not voting for Genocide Joe.
People should have the right to vote outside the two party system without a spoiler effect. Its a inalienable right actually.
There are more representative electoral systems that can accomplish this. Are you working to pass electoral reform in your state so those that are unrepresented by First-past-the-post voting can participate in democracy?
“Why are women so obsessed with suffrage” - you, if you lived during the early 20th century
Videos on Electoral Reform
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems we can try out.
Yes, you are very smart. Congratulations on having the most convoluted, psychopathic president in the world. You’ve clearly taught that genocide Joe a lesson.
I dunno how you can draw a false equivalence between women fighting for their right to vote, and refusing to vote against an avowed fascist (who then won office), and keep a straight face.
Zelenskyj had every right to question Vance the way he did, but it wasn’t the right time to do so if he wanted their respect.
It was disrespectful. It hurts me to concede this point. I didn’t want it to be true but I had to see the cause for the fight breaking out, and I hate to admit that it was Zelenskyj who put Vance on the spot in front of everyone like he was on trial, and put him to shame. That’s not something you want to do when you’re trying to make a deal for your people.
Zelenskyj has too much of a backbone, unfortunately. Respect to him, for standing up against bullshit, but it was definitely a case of picking your battles.
So what should’ve been the answer to Vance’s proposal of “diplomacy”, in your opinion? Do you think he shouldn’t have questioned the validity of it, in spite of the precedents? Wouldn’t that just mean accepting the deal without any guarantee of protection like it happened before?
If Zelenskyj really had the ambition of accepting a deal here, he should’ve just let it slide. Diplomacy is always a good thing if it’s fair and just. But we all know Vance is full of shit in this case. You have to have the right to defend your land, obviously. We know this.
But starting to question someone and putting someone on the spot on live TV that you’re trying to make a deal with, and making them lose face in front of their own people in their home court, that’s a deal breaker. You could tell because Vance had nothing to retort with other than say Zelenskyj was being disrespectful.
I mean, this is just facts. I don’t like it more than anyone else. This was a shit situation. He needs the deal, but had to swallow a lot of shit if he were to get it, but he chose not to. Respect to him for that, but now it is what it is.
If he felt he didn’t really need the deal, then he chose the right thing to do by not taking bullshit. So good on him.
I don’t think people in this thread realize I’m on Zelenskyj’s side in this. Everyone is just down voting every thing I post because Zelenskyj can do no wrong (❤️) and Trump is a monster (which he is), but negotiations are more nuanced than black and white sometimes lol. There’s psychology at play here. Oh well.
I mean, he was asking a question that had to be asked at one point or another. If Vance had an answer to that, he wouldn’t have lost face. If he didn’t, that means any kind of deal they could’ve made would’ve been useless (if not harmful) to Ukraine.
What would’ve he gained by not making that question? The chance to make a deal with no warranties? I feel like he’s a very good strategic thinker, and that wasn’t a choice dictated by pride or by the heat of the moment. There was nothing significant to gain by not asking that question, they would’ve just discussed the deal behind closed doors and he’d still have to refuse because Trump’s only warranty would still be “well so far he hasn’t broken promises with me, though”.
Seems to me like there was no point in being there at all except to argue in that case? That’s how I interpret what you are saying. If there were no guarantees in this deal, why is Zelenskyj there in the first place, but to shame them (rightfully)?
I think it’s because he hoped there were actual guarantees, considering Trump is definitely interested in Ukraine’s mineral industry. But as the meeting went on it became increasingly clear that keeping Putin his BFF was even more important and he just wanted to have his cake and eat it too.
I just don’t think it adds up, because Zelenskyj was thanking Trump and saying God bless Trump and being appreciative in demeanor all the way up until Vance’s horse shit. To me it just seems like he took so much offense to Vance’s remark about diplomacy that he couldn’t keep it in. Again, no blame here. But it just seemed like it wasn’t the way it was supposed to go.
I still think the ultimate outcome wouldn’t have changed but yeah, rewatching it he does seem a bit more provocative than in the rest of the interview. Maybe it did tick him off a bit too much and he decided to go for it in the heat of the moment.
Why would any nation that does not have nukes not start making nukes right now?
The USA has shown over and over, it’s the only thing we take seriously. We don’t give a fuck until you have nukes. We don’t care about treaties, alliances, deals. We only care if you can start the nuke wars. Anything else is just “how can we take advantage of you?”
Also … World, I understand you’re not reading this, but for the three of ya that do, boycott us. Tariff the shit out of us. You got this, and thanks for all the fish.
deleted by creator
